11:54 a.m.
Don't know if you've received this.
http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2692661
If I'm reading this correctly, CKPS were more concerned about the cyclist
failing to stop and identify himself than they were for the moving
violations of blowing the stop sign. Until they do the latter, they aren't
part of the solution.
But there seems to be a double standard. Last year, a motorist called in a
complaint about one of the Weds/Sun recreational rides where one of the
cyclists was being just plain stupid. CKPS took the time to find who
organized the rides (Dan B.) to let us know of the complaint. Within days, I
was almost T-boned (not on my bike) at Monarch and Valley Road by a vehicle
failing to obey a stop sign. I had model, licence and even the address where
the vehicle stopped. I called the CKPS who told me they couldn't do anything
as no accident had occurred.
James.
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:18:38 -0400
From: "John Sigurjonsson" <john(a)cycleck.ca>
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
To: "'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'"
<ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca>
Message-ID: <001401cb2ffa$7f63fda0$1a652748@John>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I can pick up the incident reports from this listserve.
Generally, include:
What happened
-Motorist passed too close (less than a meter
clearance)
-Motorist turning right cut off cyclist (called
a "right hook")
-Motorist turning left cut off cyclist (didn't
yield right-of-way)
-Motorist opened vehicle door in front of
cyclist (door prize!)
-Motorist parked or drove in bike lane
-Cyclist disobeyed traffic rules
Take your pick.
-Police Officer acted unfairly (e.g. Dan's
experience)
Where (The more specific the better. There are accident "hot
spots" in the municipality that we're trying to get the Traffic
Engineering department to take action on. Also, Police Services
can step up enforcement at multiple-incident locations.)
When - Date and time if possible
Traffic conditions at the time - light or heavy.
Type of vehicle involved (car, truck, bus)
Since our purpose is to identify generic kinds of incidents
and suggest general police or traffic engineering solutions, I don't
think it's important that we have license numbers or other specific
identification at this point. If the police tell us they can take action
on a 911 call for specific kinds of situations then that kind of ID will
become important.
Certainly any time there is personal injury or property damage over
$1000 involved police expect to be called.
If there are incidents you can recall over the past few
months we might get enough of a list right away to build a meeting with
Police Services around. If the issues are mostly around public education
we maybe should include the education subcommittee of the ACSC in the
same meeting.
Any suggestions anybody would like to make as to how Police
Services or Traffic Engineering could improve the situation will also be
welcome to be passed on to those parties.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:39 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
This sounds like a great plan. What would be the best way for us to
"report" our incidents to you? Via email or using our shared website?
I'll start asking our members to consider recording the incident so that
we can get some action from the police. Mutual respect will go a long
way.
Dan, if we are patient and work together this community will change.
just think just 2 years ago this community riding group did not exist
especially with this many dedicated members and we are growing all the
time! The more we continue the dialogue with the police and the
community the easier it will be become to ride without fear on our
roadways.
I believe there are Sunday and Morning morning rides this weekend.
Everyone be safe and enjoy the long weekend.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 2:32 PM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Jen, thanks for your response.
When we meet with the police brass we could present a description of the
kinds of incidents you are experiencing with specific examples and
discuss with them the best response. Can they act on the basis of a
phoned-in report? What specific info would they need?
Police Services regularly issues media releases on safety-elated
subjects and those could emphasize what's happening on CK roads and
advise drivers on their responsibilities and the potential penalties for
violation. Also, the ACSC is working on a regular media feature along
the lines of "Sergeant Domony Advises" dealing in part with cycling
issues and your experiences could be incorporated into that.
The Chief and his people also recognize that they need to train the
entire force on the rights and responsibilities of cyclists (and
motorists relating to cyclists) to avoid the kind of occurrence that Dan
describes ("going too fast, er, no, taking too much of the lane") CKCCG
can help them focus their training by letting them know about that kind
of incident.
If Cycling Community members will post the experiences/incidents and
suggestions that they would like taken to a discussion with Police
Services I will volunteer to compile them (I'm retired, so have some
time available), review the compilation with Dan and Jen L for fine
tuning, and then report it back to the entire listserve for comment. In
the meantime I'll let Police Services know what we're doing and get
their commitment to review our product and meet with us for discussion
of it. Cycling Community can decide who should represent them at that
meeting.
Does that sound like a plan?
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
I think that's a great idea. Could you give us some idea of what the
police would like to see in terms of an "incident report"? Do they want
us to call 911 from the side of the road to report the make and model of
the vehicle or just an "after the fact" report? Dan and I have been
harassed on the river road as well and I would have liked to call it in
but didn't think 911 was the right venue.
The 4 E's sound good to me. I believe the schools are doing a pretty
good with education for kids as is the Children's Safety Village and the
bike rodeo held at the same time as the Rotary Ride. We are trying but
I think the frustration comes from our more long distance riders feeling
our safety compromised on each and every outing. We would like to know
how the police will handle these complaints.
At one time there used to be a police officer or two on bicycles. This
seems to be the best approach for "pulling over" other cyclists on the
sidewalks. Perhaps, some enforcement for those infractions and some
media attention will keep the education moving in the right direction.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 10:44 AM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Thanks for your response Dan
Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police
Services has been negative. We have had a very good working relationship
with Chief Dennis Poole and his staff - particularly the Sergeant in
charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is actively involved with
Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to support
the shift to cycling as transportation.
We've had several meetings with these Police Services
personnel on both enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling
Community were to put together a list of incidents and suggested
improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm sure we'd
get a good hearing.
What do you think of that idea?
We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more
important. Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and
enforcement issues. Work is underway on all of these elements right now
in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North America and Europe are
working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift
travel from cars to bikes.
I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if
they don't feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by
professionals working on this have led to the belief that we need what
is called "the four Es": Engineering (infrastructure), Education,
Encouragement, and Enforcement.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is
the least of the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no
education they won't come out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing
with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they
just opt to ignore them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just
starting and leaving from one location... we do stop at various
locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning against a wall. This
does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if
they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can
get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the
Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists
out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they
should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play
as you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of
transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the
coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should
turn into but it won't happen over night. That is why Education is your
most important factor in this planing... Mostly when your local police
force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast"
then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he
would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to
show them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it
at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive
driver... but still the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its
great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy.
There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010
so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent
be aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation
comes from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the
ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the
ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom)
to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different
from the average member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle
does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B
to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose
of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their
destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or
paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks).
It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks,
but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides
that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are
going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend
classes etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by
bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000
bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to
see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence
bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had
three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not
fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me
know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments
back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as
needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall -
with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs
to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) -
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is
intended for an adult audience.
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