Re: [CKcycle] Moving Forward.

Here!! Here!! Way to go James!! Exactly the point!! We should be focusing on education for the long term. It isn't going to change overnight, but as we've seen with the helmet issue, comparing it to the seatbelt issue 50 yrs ago... Education is where it starts. When people start seeing tangible results, then they realize how little effort it takes to be safe and drive safe. We ALL have a right to be on the road, and we ALL have to be respectful. CKPS needs to start enforcing the laws about bicycling, just as they do with regards to seatbelts etc... Education is the foundation for success. Thanks, Brian T. Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca&gt; Sender: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:02:50 To: <ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca&gt; Reply-To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group <ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca&gt; Subject: [CKcycle] Moving Forward. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Because this is the discussion we're having. Do we need bike lanes, do we need bike racks, do we need education? Yes, yes and yes but which should come first? And it all depends on the rider and their purpose. For the Active Transportation cyclist, safe and secure parking is essential. However, if the rider doesn't feel safe on the road, the racks will go unused as no one will ride. Likewise, if the rider can't find a safe and secure place to park, the lanes won't get used. John, despite you assertions about where the Tues, Weds, Sun groups ride, many of us ride to and from the departure point through the urban setting, as well as riding to and from work. Doesn't this constitute AT? Likewise our recreational routes take us through the urban setting, for example the full length of King Street. So when it comes to roadways, there is no distinction between an active transportation cyclist and a recreational cyclist. Why we're riding on the road is irrelevant. The fact is we're there and we have to provide for everyone's safety, pedestrian, cyclist and motorist. And in all of this education, for cyclist and motorist alike is essential. Maybe the ACSC has been a little slow in getting this of the ground, but we're also dealing with funding issues requiring us to get approval from City Council before we spend any funds. The large displays are just the start of the education process. But I would ask that in your conversations with CKPS, you ask them to be part of this process. If they see a cyclist disobeying the traffic rules, they should stop and educate them. Maybe in a few months, they could then start issuing tickets. The same scenario as the cell phone ban. I know people still use them while driving, and many cyclists will continue to disobey the rules, but that shouldn't be an excuse for doing nothing. And if they see someone riding wreaklessly, on the road or sidewalk putting others in danger, no questions, issue the ticket. And finally, as I have pointed out many a time, the comparison with Europe is comparing apples to cabbages. When gas hits $3/litre, when the annual road tax hits $500 (that's what my father-in-law just paid in the UK), when it takes 1 hour to travel the full length of Lacroix, Sandy's, Orangewood because of traffic congestion, when parking is at a premium due to lack of space then you'll have a fair comparison. If you look at Canada's major cities which are investing heavily to encourage cycling as an alternative; Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, you see that the last two issues, congestion and lack of parking are the case. And fixing Chatham-Kent is going to take time. We're 10 to 20 years behind, we're not going to fix it in 10 weeks. You know the plan is a 20 year plan. Now we've started, we've got to keep moving forward. Arguing which should have come first, the chicken or the egg, is not the way to do it! Discussing what comes next, bearing in mind everyone has a different opinion for different reasons and respecting those opinions, is. James. -----Original Message----- From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Daniel Brousseau Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display John, Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements... As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is the least of the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no education they won't come out. The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars... The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they just opt to ignore them and only enforce them at their discretion. Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just starting and leaving from one location... we do stop at various locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning against a wall. This does not stop us cause there is no bike racks. So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists out. Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play as you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the coin on this topic. I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should turn into but it won't happen over night. That is why Education is your most important factor in this planing... Mostly when your local police force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving Violations. When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast" then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to show them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it at their discretion. Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive driver... but still the rules are the same for both. Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights John Sigurjonsson wrote: Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy. There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010 so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year. When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent be aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation comes from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom) to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the average member of ckcycle. For example: Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings.. The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes. They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built. They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks). It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks, but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend classes etc secure parking is an issue. If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000 bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to see! Regards John Sigurjonsson Member Services Cycle Chatham-Kent 519-352-0883 -----Original Message----- From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun. On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca&gt; wrote: As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to the Active Communities Committee. Thanks James. Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall - with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience. _____ _______________________________________________ CKcycle mailing list CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle _____ _______________________________________________ CKcycle mailing list CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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