Re: [CKcycle] pull up display [1/2]

Re: [CKcycle] pull up displayWhat happenned- motorist in our lane- head on approx- 25- 50 ft from us- in curved portion of road (ie- he was 100% in our lane- as was going to fast into the curve). The driver wiped the steering wheel to the right when he saw us (Helen and Cynthia)- very fortunate did not automatically over correct. Where - River View Drive- near Pump Rd ( ie- near Jeannettes Creek bridge) When- Fri June 25, 2010- approx 0930 Traffic condtion- light Type of vehicle- newer vehicle- blue/purple colour paint, four door, compact car Driver- - male, approx 30-35 yr of age- with nice eyes (we were that close) -had we been 5 sec sooner- we would have beed dead- and I would not be typing this report. As well- that morning- I forgot- and did not have my road ID on me- really dumb- as the police would not have been able to ID us- because people- we would have been dead. thanks- Helen and Cynthia. ( ps we stopped about 50 ft up the road- in a drive way- to compose ourselves- and say a prayer of gratitude....) ----- Original Message ----- From: John Sigurjonsson To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group' Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display I can pick up the incident reports from this listserve. Generally, include: What happened -Motorist passed too close (less than a meter clearance) -Motorist turning right cut off cyclist (called a "right hook") -Motorist turning left cut off cyclist (didn't yield right-of-way) -Motorist opened vehicle door in front of cyclist (door prize!) -Motorist parked or drove in bike lane -Cyclist disobeyed traffic rules Take your pick. -Police Officer acted unfairly (e.g. Dan's experience) Where (The more specific the better. There are accident "hot spots" in the municipality that we're trying to get the Traffic Engineering department to take action on. Also, Police Services can step up enforcement at multiple-incident locations.) When - Date and time if possible Traffic conditions at the time - light or heavy. Type of vehicle involved (car, truck, bus) Since our purpose is to identify generic kinds of incidents and suggest general police or traffic engineering solutions, I don't think it's important that we have license numbers or other specific identification at this point. If the police tell us they can take action on a 911 call for specific kinds of situations then that kind of ID will become important. Certainly any time there is personal injury or property damage over $1000 involved police expect to be called. If there are incidents you can recall over the past few months we might get enough of a list right away to build a meeting with Police Services around. If the issues are mostly around public education we maybe should include the education subcommittee of the ACSC in the same meeting. Any suggestions anybody would like to make as to how Police Services or Traffic Engineering could improve the situation will also be welcome to be passed on to those parties. Regards John Sigurjonsson Member Services Cycle Chatham-Kent 519-352-0883 -----Original Message----- From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Laevens, Jennifer Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:39 AM To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display John, This sounds like a great plan. What would be the best way for us to "report" our incidents to you? Via email or using our shared website? I'll start asking our members to consider recording the incident so that we can get some action from the police. Mutual respect will go a long way. Dan, if we are patient and work together this community will change. just think just 2 years ago this community riding group did not exist especially with this many dedicated members and we are growing all the time! The more we continue the dialogue with the police and the community the easier it will be become to ride without fear on our roadways. I believe there are Sunday and Morning morning rides this weekend. Everyone be safe and enjoy the long weekend. Jennifer Laevens 519-436-4600 Ext 2926 From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson Sent: July 29, 2010 2:32 PM To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group' Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display Jen, thanks for your response. When we meet with the police brass we could present a description of the kinds of incidents you are experiencing with specific examples and discuss with them the best response. Can they act on the basis of a phoned-in report? What specific info would they need? Police Services regularly issues media releases on safety-elated subjects and those could emphasize what's happening on CK roads and advise drivers on their responsibilities and the potential penalties for violation. Also, the ACSC is working on a regular media feature along the lines of "Sergeant Domony Advises" dealing in part with cycling issues and your experiences could be incorporated into that. The Chief and his people also recognize that they need to train the entire force on the rights and responsibilities of cyclists (and motorists relating to cyclists) to avoid the kind of occurrence that Dan describes ("going too fast, er, no, taking too much of the lane") CKCCG can help them focus their training by letting them know about that kind of incident. If Cycling Community members will post the experiences/incidents and suggestions that they would like taken to a discussion with Police Services I will volunteer to compile them (I'm retired, so have some time available), review the compilation with Dan and Jen L for fine tuning, and then report it back to the entire listserve for comment. In the meantime I'll let Police Services know what we're doing and get their commitment to review our product and meet with us for discussion of it. Cycling Community can decide who should represent them at that meeting. Does that sound like a plan? Regards John Sigurjonsson Member Services Cycle Chatham-Kent 519-352-0883 -----Original Message----- From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Laevens, Jennifer Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:47 AM To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display John, I think that's a great idea. Could you give us some idea of what the police would like to see in terms of an "incident report"? Do they want us to call 911 from the side of the road to report the make and model of the vehicle or just an "after the fact" report? Dan and I have been harassed on the river road as well and I would have liked to call it in but didn't think 911 was the right venue. The 4 E's sound good to me. I believe the schools are doing a pretty good with education for kids as is the Children's Safety Village and the bike rodeo held at the same time as the Rotary Ride. We are trying but I think the frustration comes from our more long distance riders feeling our safety compromised on each and every outing. We would like to know how the police will handle these complaints. At one time there used to be a police officer or two on bicycles. This seems to be the best approach for "pulling over" other cyclists on the sidewalks. Perhaps, some enforcement for those infractions and some media attention will keep the education moving in the right direction. Jennifer Laevens 519-436-4600 Ext 2926 From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson Sent: July 29, 2010 10:44 AM To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group' Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display Thanks for your response Dan Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police Services has been negative. We have had a very good working relationship with Chief Dennis Poole and his staff - particularly the Sergeant in charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is actively involved with Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to support the shift to cycling as transportation. We've had several meetings with these Police Services personnel on both enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling Community were to put together a list of incidents and suggested improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm sure we'd get a good hearing. What do you think of that idea? We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more important. Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and enforcement issues. Work is underway on all of these elements right now in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North America and Europe are working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift travel from cars to bikes. I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if they don't feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by professionals working on this have led to the belief that we need what is called "the four Es": Engineering (infrastructure), Education, Encouragement, and Enforcement. Regards John Sigurjonsson Member Services Cycle Chatham-Kent 519-352-0883 -----Original Message----- From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Daniel Brousseau Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display John, Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements... As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is the least of the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no education they won't come out. The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars... The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they just opt to ignore them and only enforce them at their discretion. Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just starting and leaving from one location... we do stop at various locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning against a wall. This does not stop us cause there is no bike racks. So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists out. Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play as you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the coin on this topic. I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should turn into but it won't happen over night. That is why Education is your most important factor in this planing... Mostly when your local police force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving Violations. When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast" then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to show them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it at their discretion. Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive driver... but still the rules are the same for both. Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights John Sigurjonsson wrote: Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy. There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010 so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year. When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent be aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation comes from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom) to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the average member of ckcycle. For example: Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings.. The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes. They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built. They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks). It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks, but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend classes etc secure parking is an issue. If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000 bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to see! Regards John Sigurjonsson Member Services Cycle Chatham-Kent 519-352-0883 -----Original Message----- From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun. On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca&gt; wrote: As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to the Active Communities Committee. Thanks James. Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall - with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CKcycle mailing list CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________CKcycle mailing listCKcycle@lists.ncf.cahttp://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CKcycle mailing list CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle