4:12 p.m.
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the
roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know
what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to
the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg
and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the
other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There
will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall - with the
informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to be
changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused
on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for
an adult audience.
4:17 p.m.
Thanks for the invite of opinion James...
In my eyes it is basic and should do well... Problem is the timing of
this release... Kids have already been out of school for almost 6weeks...
I'm sure you know where I am getting at as you and I see eye to eye on
most things touching cycling.
Dan
James Lively wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let
me know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your
comments back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere
as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the
wall -- with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if
anything needs to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not
too many words) -- focused on the Share the Road and the two different
road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
5:37 p.m.
having the signs displayed in the libraries is nice, but what about the
majority of the public that don't visit a library.
they need to be seen by the public- billboard? newspaper......
Rand MacIntosh
519-352-4740
1-866-739-2237
cell 519-355-5074
rmacintosh(a)campbell.toyota.ca
Mon, Wed, Fri 9-5, Tues, Thurs till 7,
please call for Saturday schedule
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On
Behalf Of Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 4:18 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Thanks for the invite of opinion James...
In my eyes it is basic and should do well... Problem is the timing of this
release... Kids have already been out of school for almost 6weeks...
I'm sure you know where I am getting at as you and I see eye to eye on most
things touching cycling.
Dan
James Lively wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the
roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know
what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to
the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg
and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the
other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There
will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall - with the
informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to be
changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused
on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for
an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5315 (20100726) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
5:52 p.m.
Ya, good idea Rand, perhaps even a display at the post office and liquor stores
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rand MacIntosh" <rmacintosh(a)campbell.toyota.ca>
Sender: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:37:11
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'<ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca>
Reply-To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group <ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca>
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
8:05 p.m.
................ and the list goes on !! Wherever people who drive cars are,
so should the signs. Had a couple of idiot encounters tonight while I was
out for a quickie (ride that is !!)
Geoff.
----- Original Message -----
From: <eymcdn(a)telus.blackberry.net>
To: "Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group" <ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Ya, good idea Rand, perhaps even a display at the post office and
liquor
stores
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rand MacIntosh" <rmacintosh(a)campbell.toyota.ca>
Sender: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:37:11
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'<ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca>
Reply-To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group <ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca>
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
9:25 p.m.
Hi James,
Like the poster... however there is a spelling mistake that you might want to correct...
Active Communities. It should have 2 m's and your poster only has one. I would like
to see these posters distributed everywhere... what can we do as a community cycling group
to make that happen?
Do we need a sponsor to print them or is that already covered. Or just volunteers to put
them up everywhere? We can do this and make our roads safer for everyone. Some motorists
just don't know but are willing to learn how to drive safely. Let's not get into
an "us" vs. "them" mentality.
I think we should cover grocery stores, public buildings, banks everywhere that will
accept one. Get the media involved and blitz it. We could see what the paper would give
us for a free ad to put it in as well.
Let me know what we can do to help.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
James Lively
Sent: July 26, 2010 4:12 PM
To: ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
Subject: [CKcycle] pull up display
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the roads.
Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know what you think as
this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to the Active Communities
Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg and Chatham
Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other Libraries), then they
can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster
on the wall - with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to
be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused on the Share
the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
11:27 p.m.
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau
(whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three
incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs
on the
roads. Here¹s the first information going out to the public. Let me know what
you think as this is a first go, and I¹ll take your comments back to the
Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg
and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other
Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also
be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall with the informational tear
off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to be changed. We wanted to keep
it light(meaning not too many words) focused on the Share the Road and the
two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
2:54 p.m.
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its
great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy.
There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010
so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent
be aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation
comes from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the
ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the
ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom)
to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different
from the average member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle
does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B
to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose
of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their
destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or
paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks).
It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks,
but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides
that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are
going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend
classes etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by
bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000
bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to
see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence
bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had
three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not
fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me
know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments
back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as
needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall -
with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs
to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) -
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is
intended for an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
3:31 p.m.
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is
the least of the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no
education they won't come out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing
with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they
just opt to ignore them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just
starting and leaving from one location... we do stop at various
locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning against a wall. This
does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if
they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can
get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the
Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they
should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play
as you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of
transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the
coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should
turn into but it won't happen over night. That is why Education is your
most important factor in this planing... Mostly when your local police
force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast"
then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he
would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to
show them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it
at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive
driver... but still the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
*Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its
great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy.
There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in
2010 so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year.*
* *
*When considering what should be done to promote cycling in
Chatham-Kent be aware that the primary community benefit from Active
Transportation comes from replacing motorized trips with
people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs to create conditions that
attract cyclists ranging from the ten year old commuting to school
(instead of being Chauffeured by mom) to granny with her shopping
tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the average member of
ckcycle. For example:*
* Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming
ckcycle does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings.. *
* The purpose of their trip is utilitarian -- get from A to
B to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary
purpose of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to
their destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic
routes.*
* They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes
or paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.*
* They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike
racks). It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent
secure racks, but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your
recreational rides that basically begin and end at home. For
utilitarian riders who are going to park the bike where they work,
shop, play tennis, attend classes etc secure parking is an issue.*
* *
*If these folks in **Chatham** made the same percentage of their trips
by bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000
bikes on **Chatham** streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something
to see! *
* *
**Regards**
**John Sigurjonsson***
**Member Services**
*/*/Cycle Chatham-Kent/*/*/
/***519-352-0883**
-----Original Message-----
*From:* ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca
[mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] *On Behalf Of *Josette deBrouwer
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
*To:* Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
*Subject:* Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other
municipal properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers
licence bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like
Geoff, I had three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim
on Sunday. Not fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let
me know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your
comments back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere
as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the
wall -- with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if
anything needs to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not
too many words) -- focused on the Share the Road and the two different
road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
10:44 a.m.
Thanks for your response Dan
Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police
Services has been negative. We have had a very good working relationship
with Chief Dennis Poole and his staff - particularly the Sergeant in
charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is actively involved with
Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to support
the shift to cycling as transportation.
We've had several meetings with these Police Services
personnel on both enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling
Community were to put together a list of incidents and suggested
improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm sure we'd
get a good hearing.
What do you think of that idea?
We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more
important. Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and
enforcement issues. Work is underway on all of these elements right now
in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North America and Europe are
working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift
travel from cars to bikes.
I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if
they don't feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by
professionals working on this have led to the belief that we need what
is called "the four Es": Engineering (infrastructure), Education,
Encouragement, and Enforcement.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is
the least of the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no
education they won't come out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing
with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they
just opt to ignore them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just
starting and leaving from one location... we do stop at various
locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning against a wall. This
does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if
they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can
get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the
Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists
out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they
should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play
as you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of
transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the
coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should
turn into but it won't happen over night. That is why Education is your
most important factor in this planing... Mostly when your local police
force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast"
then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he
would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to
show them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it
at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive
driver... but still the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its
great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy.
There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010
so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent
be aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation
comes from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the
ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the
ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom)
to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different
from the average member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle
does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B
to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose
of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their
destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or
paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks).
It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks,
but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides
that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are
going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend
classes etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by
bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000
bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to
see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence
bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had
three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not
fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me
know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments
back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as
needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall -
with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs
to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) -
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is
intended for an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
11:47 a.m.
John,
I think that's a great idea. Could you give us some idea of what the police would
like to see in terms of an "incident report"? Do they want us to call 911 from
the side of the road to report the make and model of the vehicle or just an "after
the fact" report? Dan and I have been harassed on the river road as well and I would
have liked to call it in but didn't think 911 was the right venue.
The 4 E's sound good to me. I believe the schools are doing a pretty good with
education for kids as is the Children's Safety Village and the bike rodeo held at the
same time as the Rotary Ride. We are trying but I think the frustration comes from our
more long distance riders feeling our safety compromised on each and every outing. We
would like to know how the police will handle these complaints.
At one time there used to be a police officer or two on bicycles. This seems to be the
best approach for "pulling over" other cyclists on the sidewalks. Perhaps, some
enforcement for those infractions and some media attention will keep the education moving
in the right direction.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of John
Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 10:44 AM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Thanks for your response Dan
Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police Services has been
negative. We have had a very good working relationship with Chief Dennis Poole and his
staff - particularly the Sergeant in charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is
actively involved with Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to
support the shift to cycling as transportation.
We've had several meetings with these Police Services personnel on both
enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling Community were to put together a list of
incidents and suggested improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm
sure we'd get a good hearing.
What do you think of that idea?
We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more important.
Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and enforcement issues. Work is
underway on all of these elements right now in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North
America and Europe are working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift
travel from cars to bikes.
I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if they don't
feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by professionals working on this have led
to the belief that we need what is called "the four Es": Engineering
(infrastructure), Education, Encouragement, and Enforcement.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is the least of the
riders concerns. It's all about education as with no education they won't come
out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing with the rules of
the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they just opt to ignore
them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just starting and leaving from
one location... we do stop at various locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning
against a wall. This does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if they feel
unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can get to them. Don't
forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the Chatham area. So putting more in
won't help on getting more cyclists out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they should be placed. This
is where the Cyclist of this group come into play as you would be surprised how many also
cycle as a mode of transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the
coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should turn into but it
won't happen over night. That is why Education is your most important factor in this
planing... Mostly when your local police force is just a farce on enforcement of the
Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast" then
changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he would try and
fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to show them local officers that
the law is the law and can't just apply it at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive driver... but still
the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its great to see CK
Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy. There is unspent budget from a grant
for the educational program in 2010 so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not
be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent be aware that the
primary community benefit from Active Transportation comes from replacing motorized trips
with people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists
ranging from the ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom) to
granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the average
member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle does on Tuesday
and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B to work, shop,
play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose of the ride isn't
recreational. So they want direct routes to their destination without having to make
detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or paths separated
from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks). It might be nice if
your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks, but otherwise it's probably not an
issue for your recreational rides that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian
riders who are going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend classes
etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by bike as is done in
some European cities, we would have about 10,000 bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours.
Wouldn't that be something to see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca<mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca>
[mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal properties,
especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau (whatever that is called)
and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of
Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the roads.
Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know what you think as
this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to the Active Communities
Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg and Chatham
Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other Libraries), then they
can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster
on the wall - with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to
be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused on the Share
the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
________________________________
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
________________________________
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca<mailto:CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca>
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
2:32 p.m.
Jen, thanks for your response.
When we meet with the police brass we could present a description of the
kinds of incidents you are experiencing with specific examples and
discuss with them the best response. Can they act on the basis of a
phoned-in report? What specific info would they need?
Police Services regularly issues media releases on safety-elated
subjects and those could emphasize what's happening on CK roads and
advise drivers on their responsibilities and the potential penalties for
violation. Also, the ACSC is working on a regular media feature along
the lines of "Sergeant Domony Advises" dealing in part with cycling
issues and your experiences could be incorporated into that.
The Chief and his people also recognize that they need to train the
entire force on the rights and responsibilities of cyclists (and
motorists relating to cyclists) to avoid the kind of occurrence that Dan
describes ("going too fast, er, no, taking too much of the lane") CKCCG
can help them focus their training by letting them know about that kind
of incident.
If Cycling Community members will post the experiences/incidents and
suggestions that they would like taken to a discussion with Police
Services I will volunteer to compile them (I'm retired, so have some
time available), review the compilation with Dan and Jen L for fine
tuning, and then report it back to the entire listserve for comment. In
the meantime I'll let Police Services know what we're doing and get
their commitment to review our product and meet with us for discussion
of it. Cycling Community can decide who should represent them at that
meeting.
Does that sound like a plan?
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
I think that's a great idea. Could you give us some idea of what the
police would like to see in terms of an "incident report"? Do they want
us to call 911 from the side of the road to report the make and model of
the vehicle or just an "after the fact" report? Dan and I have been
harassed on the river road as well and I would have liked to call it in
but didn't think 911 was the right venue.
The 4 E's sound good to me. I believe the schools are doing a pretty
good with education for kids as is the Children's Safety Village and the
bike rodeo held at the same time as the Rotary Ride. We are trying but
I think the frustration comes from our more long distance riders feeling
our safety compromised on each and every outing. We would like to know
how the police will handle these complaints.
At one time there used to be a police officer or two on bicycles. This
seems to be the best approach for "pulling over" other cyclists on the
sidewalks. Perhaps, some enforcement for those infractions and some
media attention will keep the education moving in the right direction.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 10:44 AM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Thanks for your response Dan
Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police
Services has been negative. We have had a very good working relationship
with Chief Dennis Poole and his staff - particularly the Sergeant in
charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is actively involved with
Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to support
the shift to cycling as transportation.
We've had several meetings with these Police Services
personnel on both enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling
Community were to put together a list of incidents and suggested
improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm sure we'd
get a good hearing.
What do you think of that idea?
We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more
important. Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and
enforcement issues. Work is underway on all of these elements right now
in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North America and Europe are
working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift
travel from cars to bikes.
I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if
they don't feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by
professionals working on this have led to the belief that we need what
is called "the four Es": Engineering (infrastructure), Education,
Encouragement, and Enforcement.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is
the least of the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no
education they won't come out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing
with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they
just opt to ignore them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just
starting and leaving from one location... we do stop at various
locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning against a wall. This
does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if
they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can
get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the
Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists
out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they
should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play
as you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of
transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the
coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should
turn into but it won't happen over night. That is why Education is your
most important factor in this planing... Mostly when your local police
force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast"
then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he
would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to
show them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it
at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive
driver... but still the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its
great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy.
There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010
so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent
be aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation
comes from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the
ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the
ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom)
to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different
from the average member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle
does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B
to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose
of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their
destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or
paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks).
It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks,
but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides
that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are
going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend
classes etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by
bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000
bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to
see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence
bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had
three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not
fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me
know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments
back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as
needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall -
with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs
to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) -
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is
intended for an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
8:39 a.m.
John,
This sounds like a great plan. What would be the best way for us to "report"
our incidents to you? Via email or using our shared website?
I'll start asking our members to consider recording the incident so that we can get
some action from the police. Mutual respect will go a long way.
Dan, if we are patient and work together this community will change... just think just 2
years ago this community riding group did not exist especially with this many dedicated
members and we are growing all the time! The more we continue the dialogue with the
police and the community the easier it will be become to ride without fear on our
roadways.
I believe there are Sunday and Morning morning rides this weekend. Everyone be safe and
enjoy the long weekend.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of John
Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 2:32 PM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Jen, thanks for your response.
When we meet with the police brass we could present a description of the kinds of
incidents you are experiencing with specific examples and discuss with them the best
response. Can they act on the basis of a phoned-in report? What specific info would they
need?
Police Services regularly issues media releases on safety-elated subjects and those could
emphasize what's happening on CK roads and advise drivers on their responsibilities
and the potential penalties for violation. Also, the ACSC is working on a regular media
feature along the lines of "Sergeant Domony Advises" dealing in part with
cycling issues and your experiences could be incorporated into that.
The Chief and his people also recognize that they need to train the entire force on the
rights and responsibilities of cyclists (and motorists relating to cyclists) to avoid the
kind of occurrence that Dan describes ("going too fast, er, no, taking too much of
the lane") CKCCG can help them focus their training by letting them know about that
kind of incident.
If Cycling Community members will post the experiences/incidents and suggestions that they
would like taken to a discussion with Police Services I will volunteer to compile them
(I'm retired, so have some time available), review the compilation with Dan and Jen L
for fine tuning, and then report it back to the entire listserve for comment. In the
meantime I'll let Police Services know what we're doing and get their commitment
to review our product and meet with us for discussion of it. Cycling Community can decide
who should represent them at that meeting.
Does that sound like a plan?
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
I think that's a great idea. Could you give us some idea of what the police would
like to see in terms of an "incident report"? Do they want us to call 911 from
the side of the road to report the make and model of the vehicle or just an "after
the fact" report? Dan and I have been harassed on the river road as well and I would
have liked to call it in but didn't think 911 was the right venue.
The 4 E's sound good to me. I believe the schools are doing a pretty good with
education for kids as is the Children's Safety Village and the bike rodeo held at the
same time as the Rotary Ride. We are trying but I think the frustration comes from our
more long distance riders feeling our safety compromised on each and every outing. We
would like to know how the police will handle these complaints.
At one time there used to be a police officer or two on bicycles. This seems to be the
best approach for "pulling over" other cyclists on the sidewalks. Perhaps, some
enforcement for those infractions and some media attention will keep the education moving
in the right direction.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of John
Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 10:44 AM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Thanks for your response Dan
Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police Services has been
negative. We have had a very good working relationship with Chief Dennis Poole and his
staff - particularly the Sergeant in charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is
actively involved with Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to
support the shift to cycling as transportation.
We've had several meetings with these Police Services personnel on both
enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling Community were to put together a list of
incidents and suggested improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm
sure we'd get a good hearing.
What do you think of that idea?
We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more important.
Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and enforcement issues. Work is
underway on all of these elements right now in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North
America and Europe are working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift
travel from cars to bikes.
I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if they don't
feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by professionals working on this have led
to the belief that we need what is called "the four Es": Engineering
(infrastructure), Education, Encouragement, and Enforcement.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is the least of the
riders concerns. It's all about education as with no education they won't come
out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing with the rules of
the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they just opt to ignore
them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just starting and leaving from
one location... we do stop at various locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning
against a wall. This does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if they feel
unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can get to them. Don't
forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the Chatham area. So putting more in
won't help on getting more cyclists out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they should be placed. This
is where the Cyclist of this group come into play as you would be surprised how many also
cycle as a mode of transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the
coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should turn into but it
won't happen over night. That is why Education is your most important factor in this
planing... Mostly when your local police force is just a farce on enforcement of the
Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast" then
changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he would try and
fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to show them local officers that
the law is the law and can't just apply it at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive driver... but still
the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its great to see CK
Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy. There is unspent budget from a grant
for the educational program in 2010 so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not
be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent be aware that the
primary community benefit from Active Transportation comes from replacing motorized trips
with people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists
ranging from the ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom) to
granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the average
member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle does on Tuesday
and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B to work, shop,
play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose of the ride isn't
recreational. So they want direct routes to their destination without having to make
detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or paths separated
from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks). It might be nice if
your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks, but otherwise it's probably not an
issue for your recreational rides that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian
riders who are going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend classes
etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by bike as is done in
some European cities, we would have about 10,000 bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours.
Wouldn't that be something to see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca<mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca>
[mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal properties,
especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau (whatever that is called)
and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of
Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the roads.
Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know what you think as
this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to the Active Communities
Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg and Chatham
Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other Libraries), then they
can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster
on the wall - with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to
be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused on the Share
the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
________________________________
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
________________________________
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca<mailto:CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca>
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
11:18 a.m.
I can pick up the incident reports from this listserve.
Generally, include:
What happened
-Motorist passed too close (less than a meter
clearance)
-Motorist turning right cut off cyclist (called
a "right hook")
-Motorist turning left cut off cyclist (didn't
yield right-of-way)
-Motorist opened vehicle door in front of
cyclist (door prize!)
-Motorist parked or drove in bike lane
-Cyclist disobeyed traffic rules
Take your pick.
-Police Officer acted unfairly (e.g. Dan's
experience)
Where (The more specific the better. There are accident "hot
spots" in the municipality that we're trying to get the Traffic
Engineering department to take action on. Also, Police Services
can step up enforcement at multiple-incident locations.)
When - Date and time if possible
Traffic conditions at the time - light or heavy.
Type of vehicle involved (car, truck, bus)
Since our purpose is to identify generic kinds of incidents
and suggest general police or traffic engineering solutions, I don't
think it's important that we have license numbers or other specific
identification at this point. If the police tell us they can take action
on a 911 call for specific kinds of situations then that kind of ID will
become important.
Certainly any time there is personal injury or property damage over
$1000 involved police expect to be called.
If there are incidents you can recall over the past few
months we might get enough of a list right away to build a meeting with
Police Services around. If the issues are mostly around public education
we maybe should include the education subcommittee of the ACSC in the
same meeting.
Any suggestions anybody would like to make as to how Police
Services or Traffic Engineering could improve the situation will also be
welcome to be passed on to those parties.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:39 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
This sounds like a great plan. What would be the best way for us to
"report" our incidents to you? Via email or using our shared website?
I'll start asking our members to consider recording the incident so that
we can get some action from the police. Mutual respect will go a long
way.
Dan, if we are patient and work together this community will change.
just think just 2 years ago this community riding group did not exist
especially with this many dedicated members and we are growing all the
time! The more we continue the dialogue with the police and the
community the easier it will be become to ride without fear on our
roadways.
I believe there are Sunday and Morning morning rides this weekend.
Everyone be safe and enjoy the long weekend.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 2:32 PM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Jen, thanks for your response.
When we meet with the police brass we could present a description of the
kinds of incidents you are experiencing with specific examples and
discuss with them the best response. Can they act on the basis of a
phoned-in report? What specific info would they need?
Police Services regularly issues media releases on safety-elated
subjects and those could emphasize what's happening on CK roads and
advise drivers on their responsibilities and the potential penalties for
violation. Also, the ACSC is working on a regular media feature along
the lines of "Sergeant Domony Advises" dealing in part with cycling
issues and your experiences could be incorporated into that.
The Chief and his people also recognize that they need to train the
entire force on the rights and responsibilities of cyclists (and
motorists relating to cyclists) to avoid the kind of occurrence that Dan
describes ("going too fast, er, no, taking too much of the lane") CKCCG
can help them focus their training by letting them know about that kind
of incident.
If Cycling Community members will post the experiences/incidents and
suggestions that they would like taken to a discussion with Police
Services I will volunteer to compile them (I'm retired, so have some
time available), review the compilation with Dan and Jen L for fine
tuning, and then report it back to the entire listserve for comment. In
the meantime I'll let Police Services know what we're doing and get
their commitment to review our product and meet with us for discussion
of it. Cycling Community can decide who should represent them at that
meeting.
Does that sound like a plan?
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
I think that's a great idea. Could you give us some idea of what the
police would like to see in terms of an "incident report"? Do they want
us to call 911 from the side of the road to report the make and model of
the vehicle or just an "after the fact" report? Dan and I have been
harassed on the river road as well and I would have liked to call it in
but didn't think 911 was the right venue.
The 4 E's sound good to me. I believe the schools are doing a pretty
good with education for kids as is the Children's Safety Village and the
bike rodeo held at the same time as the Rotary Ride. We are trying but
I think the frustration comes from our more long distance riders feeling
our safety compromised on each and every outing. We would like to know
how the police will handle these complaints.
At one time there used to be a police officer or two on bicycles. This
seems to be the best approach for "pulling over" other cyclists on the
sidewalks. Perhaps, some enforcement for those infractions and some
media attention will keep the education moving in the right direction.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 10:44 AM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Thanks for your response Dan
Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police
Services has been negative. We have had a very good working relationship
with Chief Dennis Poole and his staff - particularly the Sergeant in
charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is actively involved with
Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to support
the shift to cycling as transportation.
We've had several meetings with these Police Services
personnel on both enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling
Community were to put together a list of incidents and suggested
improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm sure we'd
get a good hearing.
What do you think of that idea?
We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more
important. Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and
enforcement issues. Work is underway on all of these elements right now
in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North America and Europe are
working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift
travel from cars to bikes.
I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if
they don't feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by
professionals working on this have led to the belief that we need what
is called "the four Es": Engineering (infrastructure), Education,
Encouragement, and Enforcement.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is
the least of the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no
education they won't come out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing
with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they
just opt to ignore them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just
starting and leaving from one location... we do stop at various
locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning against a wall. This
does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if
they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can
get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the
Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists
out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they
should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play
as you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of
transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the
coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should
turn into but it won't happen over night. That is why Education is your
most important factor in this planing... Mostly when your local police
force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast"
then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he
would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to
show them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it
at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive
driver... but still the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its
great to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy.
There is unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010
so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent
be aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation
comes from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the
ACSC needs to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the
ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom)
to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different
from the average member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle
does on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B
to work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose
of the ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their
destination without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or
paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks).
It might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks,
but otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides
that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are
going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend
classes etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by
bike as is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000
bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to
see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence
bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had
three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not
fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me
know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments
back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as
needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall -
with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs
to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) -
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is
intended for an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
12:14 p.m.
New subject: pull up display [1/2]
Re: [CKcycle] pull up displayWhat happenned- motorist in our lane- head on approx- 25- 50
ft from us- in curved portion of road (ie- he was 100% in our lane- as was going to fast
into the curve). The driver wiped the steering wheel to the right when he saw us (Helen
and Cynthia)- very fortunate did not automatically over correct.
Where - River View Drive- near Pump Rd ( ie- near Jeannettes Creek bridge)
When- Fri June 25, 2010- approx 0930
Traffic condtion- light
Type of vehicle- newer vehicle- blue/purple colour paint, four door, compact car
Driver- - male, approx 30-35 yr of age- with nice eyes (we were that close)
-had we been 5 sec sooner- we would have beed dead- and I would not be typing this report.
As well- that morning- I forgot- and did not have my road ID on me- really dumb- as the
police would not have been able to ID us- because people- we would have been dead.
thanks-
Helen and Cynthia.
( ps we stopped about 50 ft up the road- in a drive way- to compose ourselves- and say a
prayer of gratitude....)
----- Original Message -----
From: John Sigurjonsson
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
I can pick up the incident reports from this listserve.
Generally, include:
What happened
-Motorist passed too close (less than a meter clearance)
-Motorist turning right cut off cyclist (called a "right
hook")
-Motorist turning left cut off cyclist (didn't yield
right-of-way)
-Motorist opened vehicle door in front of cyclist (door prize!)
-Motorist parked or drove in bike lane
-Cyclist disobeyed traffic rules
Take your pick.
-Police Officer acted unfairly (e.g. Dan's experience)
Where (The more specific the better. There are accident "hot
spots" in the municipality that we're trying to get the Traffic Engineering
department to take action on. Also, Police Services can step up enforcement at
multiple-incident locations.)
When - Date and time if possible
Traffic conditions at the time - light or heavy.
Type of vehicle involved (car, truck, bus)
Since our purpose is to identify generic kinds of incidents and suggest
general police or traffic engineering solutions, I don't think it's important that
we have license numbers or other specific identification at this point. If the police tell
us they can take action on a 911 call for specific kinds of situations then that kind of
ID will become important.
Certainly any time there is personal injury or property damage over $1000 involved
police expect to be called.
If there are incidents you can recall over the past few months we might get
enough of a list right away to build a meeting with Police Services around. If the issues
are mostly around public education we maybe should include the education subcommittee of
the ACSC in the same meeting.
Any suggestions anybody would like to make as to how Police Services or
Traffic Engineering could improve the situation will also be welcome to be passed on to
those parties.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:39 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
This sounds like a great plan. What would be the best way for us to "report"
our incidents to you? Via email or using our shared website?
I'll start asking our members to consider recording the incident so that we can get
some action from the police. Mutual respect will go a long way.
Dan, if we are patient and work together this community will change. just think just 2
years ago this community riding group did not exist especially with this many dedicated
members and we are growing all the time! The more we continue the dialogue with the
police and the community the easier it will be become to ride without fear on our
roadways.
I believe there are Sunday and Morning morning rides this weekend. Everyone be safe and
enjoy the long weekend.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
John Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 2:32 PM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Jen, thanks for your response.
When we meet with the police brass we could present a description of the kinds of
incidents you are experiencing with specific examples and discuss with them the best
response. Can they act on the basis of a phoned-in report? What specific info would they
need?
Police Services regularly issues media releases on safety-elated subjects and those
could emphasize what's happening on CK roads and advise drivers on their
responsibilities and the potential penalties for violation. Also, the ACSC is working on a
regular media feature along the lines of "Sergeant Domony Advises" dealing in
part with cycling issues and your experiences could be incorporated into that.
The Chief and his people also recognize that they need to train the entire force on the
rights and responsibilities of cyclists (and motorists relating to cyclists) to avoid the
kind of occurrence that Dan describes ("going too fast, er, no, taking too much of
the lane") CKCCG can help them focus their training by letting them know about that
kind of incident.
If Cycling Community members will post the experiences/incidents and suggestions that
they would like taken to a discussion with Police Services I will volunteer to compile
them (I'm retired, so have some time available), review the compilation with Dan and
Jen L for fine tuning, and then report it back to the entire listserve for comment. In the
meantime I'll let Police Services know what we're doing and get their commitment
to review our product and meet with us for discussion of it. Cycling Community can decide
who should represent them at that meeting.
Does that sound like a plan?
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
Laevens, Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
I think that's a great idea. Could you give us some idea of what the police would
like to see in terms of an "incident report"? Do they want us to call 911 from
the side of the road to report the make and model of the vehicle or just an "after
the fact" report? Dan and I have been harassed on the river road as well and I would
have liked to call it in but didn't think 911 was the right venue.
The 4 E's sound good to me. I believe the schools are doing a pretty good with
education for kids as is the Children's Safety Village and the bike rodeo held at the
same time as the Rotary Ride. We are trying but I think the frustration comes from our
more long distance riders feeling our safety compromised on each and every outing. We
would like to know how the police will handle these complaints.
At one time there used to be a police officer or two on bicycles. This seems to be the
best approach for "pulling over" other cyclists on the sidewalks. Perhaps, some
enforcement for those infractions and some media attention will keep the education moving
in the right direction.
Jennifer Laevens
519-436-4600 Ext 2926
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
John Sigurjonsson
Sent: July 29, 2010 10:44 AM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Thanks for your response Dan
Sorry to hear that your experience with local Police Services has been
negative. We have had a very good working relationship with Chief Dennis Poole and his
staff - particularly the Sergeant in charge of traffic matters, Mike Domony. Mike is
actively involved with Public Health and the ACSC in developing an education program to
support the shift to cycling as transportation.
We've had several meetings with these Police Services personnel on both
enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling Community were to put together a list of
incidents and suggested improvements we could together take it to Police Services. I'm
sure we'd get a good hearing.
What do you think of that idea?
We don't need to debate whether education or racks are more important.
Both can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and enforcement issues. Work is
underway on all of these elements right now in Chatham-Kent. Communities throughout North
America and Europe are working at all of these elements simultaneously in efforts to shift
travel from cars to bikes.
I certainly agree with you that most people won't cycle if they
don't feel safe doing it. Many decades of experience by professionals working on this
have led to the belief that we need what is called "the four Es": Engineering
(infrastructure), Education, Encouragement, and Enforcement.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
Daniel Brousseau
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:32 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
Sorry to say but I don't agree with all your statements...
As stated in the meeting where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is the least of
the riders concerns. It's all about education as with no education they won't come
out.
The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their dealing with the rules of
the road with cyclists and cars...
The LAWS are there already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they just opt to ignore
them and only enforce them at their discretion.
Also note that our Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just starting and leaving
from one location... we do stop at various locations and sometimes leave our bikes leaning
against a wall. This does not stop us cause there is no bike racks.
So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get more people out if they feel
unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids Only) so they can get to them. Don't
forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks here in the Chatham area. So putting more in
won't help on getting more cyclists out.
Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where they should be placed.
This is where the Cyclist of this group come into play as you would be surprised how many
also cycle as a mode of transportation but also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of
the coin on this topic.
I know John you have this great envision of what Chatham-Kent should turn into but it
won't happen over night. That is why Education is your most important factor in this
planing... Mostly when your local police force is just a farce on enforcement of the
Moving Violations.
When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer for "Going to fast" then
changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was hopping he would try and
fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door to show them local officers that
the law is the law and can't just apply it at their discretion.
Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just as a automotive driver... but still
the rules are the same for both.
Same Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights
John Sigurjonsson wrote:
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its great to see CK
Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy. There is unspent budget from a grant
for the educational program in 2010 so a lot of ideas are affordable this year but may not
be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent be aware that
the primary community benefit from Active Transportation comes from replacing motorized
trips with people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs to create conditions that attract
cyclists ranging from the ten year old commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured
by mom) to granny with her shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the
average member of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle does on Tuesday
and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B to work, shop,
play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose of the ride isn't
recreational. So they want direct routes to their destination without having to make
detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or paths separated
from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks). It might be nice
if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks, but otherwise it's probably not
an issue for your recreational rides that basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian
riders who are going to park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend classes
etc secure parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by bike as is done in
some European cities, we would have about 10,000 bikes on Chatham streets at rush hours.
Wouldn't that be something to see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On Behalf Of
Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal properties,
especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau (whatever that is called)
and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of
Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the roads.
Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know what you think as
this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to the Active Communities
Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg and Chatham
Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other Libraries), then they
can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster
on the wall - with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to
be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused on the Share
the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________CKcycle mailing
listCKcycle@lists.ncf.cahttp://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
12:14 p.m.
New subject: pull up display [2/2]
We=92ve had several meetings with these Police Services personnel on =
both=20
enforcement and educational issues. If CKCycling Community were to put =
together a list of incidents and suggested improvements we could =
together take=20
it to Police Services. I=92m sure we=92d get a good hearing.=20
<BR>
=
What do=20
you think of that idea?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">
=
We don=92t need to debate whether education or racks are more =
important. Both=20
can be done at the same time along with bike lanes and enforcement =
issues.=20
Work is underway on all of these elements right now in Chatham-Kent.=20
Communities throughout North America and Europe are working at all of =
these=20
elements simultaneously in efforts to shift travel from cars to=20
bikes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">
=
I certainly agree with you that most people won=92t cycle if they =
don=92t feel=20
safe doing it. Many decades of experience by professionals =
working on=20
this have led to the belief that we need what is called =93the four =
Es=94:=20
Engineering (infrastructure), Education, Encouragement, and=20
Enforcement. =20
=
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; =
&=
nbsp; <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></B></P>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"
class=3DMsoNormal><STRONG><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D3 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">Regards</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"
class=3DMsoNormal><STRONG><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D3 face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">John=20
Sigurjonsson</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><B><FONT
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-WEIGHT:
bold"><BR><STRONG><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Member=20
=
Services</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><BR></SPAN></FONT></B><EM><B><I><FONT
=
face=3DBroadway><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Broadway; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Cycle=20
Chatham-Kent</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><B><I><FONT
=
face=3DBroadway><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Broadway; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold"><BR></SPAN></FONT></I></B><STRONG><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">519-352-0883</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D2=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] =
<B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Daniel =
Brousseau<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, July
28, 2010 =
3:32=20
PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">To:</SPAN></B> Chatham-Kent =
Commmunity Cycling Group<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [CKcycle]
pull up=20
display</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D3=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D3=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">John,<BR><BR>Sorry to say=20
but I don't agree with all your statements...<BR><BR>As stated in the =
meeting=20
where Matt, James and I where... a Bike Rack is the least of the =
riders=20
concerns. It's all about education as with no education they won't =
come=20
out.<BR>The police department here in Chatham is just a joke in their =
dealing=20
with the rules of the road with cyclists and cars...<BR><BR>The LAWS =
are there=20
already in place to enforce SAFE Cycling but they just opt to ignore =
them and=20
only enforce them at their discretion.<BR><BR>Also note that our=20
Sunday/Wednesday rides do not consist of just starting and leaving =
from one=20
location... we do stop at various locations and sometimes leave our =
bikes=20
leaning against a wall. This does not stop us cause there is no bike=20
racks.<BR><BR>So again, Bike Racks & Bike Lanes/Paths will not get
=
more=20
people out if they feel unsafe to even be on the road/sidewalk(Kids =
Only) so=20
they can get to them. Don't forget there are MANY EMPTY Bike Racks =
here in the=20
Chatham area. So putting more in won't help on getting more cyclists =
out.=20
<BR><BR>Also this discussion is about the poster in it self and where =
they=20
should be placed. This is where the Cyclist of this group come into =
play as=20
you would be surprised how many also cycle as a mode of transportation =
but=20
also drive a vehicle. So we know both side of the coin on this=20
topic.<BR> <BR>I know John you have this great envision of what=20
Chatham-Kent should turn into but it won't happen over night. That is =
why=20
Education is your most important factor in this planing... Mostly when =
your=20
local police force is just a farce on enforcement of the Moving=20
Violations.<BR><BR>When I got pulled over on Grand Ave early summer =
for "Going=20
to fast" then changed to "Taking to much room on the road". I was =
hopping he=20
would try and fine me... this way it would of been a foot in the door =
to show=20
them local officers that the law is the law and can't just apply it at =
their=20
discretion.<BR><BR>Yes it can take as much time to fine a cyclist just =
as a=20
automotive driver... but still the rules are the same for =
both.<BR><BR>Same=20
Roads, Same Rules, Same Rights<BR><BR><BR>John Sigurjonsson wrote:=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Some =
super=20
ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its great to =
see CK=20
Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy. There is unspent =
budget=20
from a grant for the educational program in 2010 so a lot of ideas are =
affordable this year but may not be next=20
year.</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold"> </SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">When=20
considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent be =
aware=20
that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation comes =
from=20
replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs =
to=20
create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the ten year old=20
commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom) to granny =
with her=20
shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the average =
member=20
of ckcycle. For
example:</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">
=
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle does on =
Tuesday=20
and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings.. =
</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">
=
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian =96 get from A to B to work, =
shop,=20
play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose of the ride =
isn=92t=20
recreational. So they want direct routes to their destination without =
having=20
to make detours to find low-traffic =
routes.</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">
=
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or paths =
separated=20
from motor vehicles. We=92re trying to get those=20
built.</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">
=
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks). It might be =
nice if=20
your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks, but otherwise =
it=92s=20
probably not an issue for your recreational rides that basically begin =
and end=20
at home. For utilitarian riders who are going to park the bike where =
they=20
work, shop, play tennis, attend classes etc secure parking is an=20
issue.</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold"> </SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">If =
these folks=20
in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by bike as is done =
in some=20
European cities, we would have about 10,000 bikes on Chatham streets =
at rush=20
hours. Wouldn=92t that be something to see! =
</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in" class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack size=3D3=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold"> </SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"
class=3DMsoNormal><STRONG><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D3 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">Regards</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"
class=3DMsoNormal><STRONG><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D3 face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">John=20
Sigurjonsson</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><B><FONT
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-WEIGHT:
bold"><BR><STRONG><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Member=20
=
Services</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><BR></SPAN></FONT></B><EM><B><I><FONT
=
face=3DBroadway><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Broadway; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Cycle=20
Chatham-Kent</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><B><I><FONT
=
face=3DBroadway><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Broadway; FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold"><BR></SPAN></FONT></I></B><STRONG><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">519-352-0883</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 2in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D2=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca">ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca=
</A>=20
[<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca">mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists=
.ncf.ca</A>]=20
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>Josette=20
deBrouwer<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Monday, July=20
26, 2010 11:27 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [CKcycle]
pull up=20
display</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 2in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D3=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 2in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; =
mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"=20
class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">They should be visible =
at all=20
municipal info centres and other municipal properties, especially =
arenas.=20
Also, how about the drivers licence bureau (whatever that is called) =
and car=20
dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 =
west of=20
Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun.<BR><BR><BR>On 10-07-26 4:12 PM,
"James =
Lively"=20
<<A
href=3D"jalively@cogeco.ca">jalively@cogeco.ca</A>>=20
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 2in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; =
mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"=20
class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#1f497d size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As we =
were=20
riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the roads. =
Here=92s=20
the first information going out to the public. Let me know what you =
think as=20
this is a first go, and I=92ll take your comments back to the Active =
Communities=20
Committee.<BR>Thanks<BR> <BR>James.<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
=
size=3D2=20
face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt"><BR>Hello=20
everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the =
Wallaceburg=20
and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large =
for the=20
other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. =
There=20
will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall =96 with the=20
informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs =
to be=20
changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) =
=96=20
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. =
It is=20
intended for an adult=20
audience.<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" =
class=3DMsoNormal=20
align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
<HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D3 width=3D"95%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 2in" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack
=
size=3D2=20
face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">_______________________________________________<BR>CKcycle=20
mailing list<BR><A =
href=3D"CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca">CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca</A><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle">http://lists.ncf.ca=
/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle</A></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P><PRE
=
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D4 width=3D"90%">
</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center;
MARGIN-LEFT: =
1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN
=
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
=
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack =
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
center; MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier
=
New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: =
1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN
=
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
=
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></=
FONT></PRE><PRE style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT
color=3Dblack =
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
10pt">CKcycle =
mailing list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: =
1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN
=
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A =
href=3D"mailto:CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca">CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca</A><o:p></o:p><=
/SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT:
1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack =
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
10pt"><A =
href=3D"http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle">http://lists.ncf.ca=
/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE
=
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
10pt"> =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>CKcycle =
mailing=20
=
list<BR>CKcycle@lists.ncf.ca<BR>http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcy=
cle<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CB2FE0.D4CE9800--
8:28 a.m.
New subject: incident report
What happened - motorist in our lane - head on approx 25-40 ft from us - in curved portion
of road (i.e. he was 100% in our lane -and was going to fast into the curve). The driver
whipped the steering wheel to the right when he saw us (Helen and Cynthia) - very
fortunate he did not automatically over correct.
Where - Riverview Drive - near Pmp Rd (ie near Jeannettes Creek bridge)
When - Fri June 25, 2010 - approx 0930
Traffic condition - light
Type of vehicle - newer vehicle -blue/purple colour paint, four door, compact car
Driver - male, approx 30-35 years of age -with nice eyes (we were that close)
-had we been 5 sec sooner - we would have een dead - and I would not be typing this
report. As well - that morning I (Helen) forgot my road ID -really dumb- as the police
would not have been able to ID us- because we would have been dead.
-submitted by Cynthia from both Helen and I.
10:48 a.m.
New subject: incident report
Waaaaay too close. I never had anything this close, but have seen poor drivers coming
too wide on curves. Glad you're both OK.
Geoff.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cynthia Aukema
To: ckcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca ; john(a)cycleck.ca
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] incident report
What happened - motorist in our lane - head on approx 25-40 ft from us - in curved
portion of road (i.e. he was 100% in our lane -and was going to fast into the curve). The
driver whipped the steering wheel to the right when he saw us (Helen and Cynthia) - very
fortunate he did not automatically over correct.
Where - Riverview Drive - near Pmp Rd (ie near Jeannettes Creek bridge)
When - Fri June 25, 2010 - approx 0930
Traffic condition - light
Type of vehicle - newer vehicle -blue/purple colour paint, four door, compact car
Driver - male, approx 30-35 years of age -with nice eyes (we were that close)
-had we been 5 sec sooner - we would have een dead - and I would not be typing this
report. As well - that morning I (Helen) forgot my road ID -really dumb- as the police
would not have been able to ID us- because we would have been dead.
-submitted by Cynthia from both Helen and I.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
3:53 p.m.
I enjoy riding my bike and would do more in town if the drivers were aware
that they must share the road. I have had a couple of situations, one of
which Randy witnessed where a gentleman pulling a trailer pulled out in
front of me. he didn't like my comment so came back around and forced me off
the road while demanding an apology. he totally disagreed with my comment
that bikes have the same rights and follow the same rules.
I ride in the country for the scenery and safety. having the added benefit
of a group makes it safer, the old adage of safety in numbers.
having more bike racks may make it more convenient, when parking but won't
make me change my mind in regards to safety.
Rand MacIntosh
519-352-4740
1-866-739-2237
cell 519-355-5074
rmacintosh(a)campbell.toyota.ca
Mon, Wed, Fri 9-5, Tues, Thurs till 7,
please call for Saturday schedule
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On
Behalf Of John Sigurjonsson
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:54 PM
To: 'Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group'
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
Some super ideas in this discussion of driver/rider education and its great
to see CK Cycle Community take an interest in cycling advocacy. There is
unspent budget from a grant for the educational program in 2010 so a lot of
ideas are affordable this year but may not be next year.
When considering what should be done to promote cycling in Chatham-Kent be
aware that the primary community benefit from Active Transportation comes
from replacing motorized trips with people-powered trips. So the ACSC needs
to create conditions that attract cyclists ranging from the ten year old
commuting to school (instead of being Chauffeured by mom) to granny with her
shopping tricycle. These cyclists are very different from the average member
of ckcycle. For example:
Their cycle routes are urban, not the rural roaming ckcycle does
on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings..
The purpose of their trip is utilitarian - get from A to B to
work, shop, play, etc.. They enjoy the ride but the primary purpose of the
ride isn't recreational. So they want direct routes to their destination
without having to make detours to find low-traffic routes.
They are not comfortable in traffic. They need bike lanes or
paths separated from motor vehicles. We're trying to get those built.
They need end-of-trip facilities (e.g. secure bike racks). It
might be nice if your Sunday breakfast stop had decent secure racks, but
otherwise it's probably not an issue for your recreational rides that
basically begin and end at home. For utilitarian riders who are going to
park the bike where they work, shop, play tennis, attend classes etc secure
parking is an issue.
If these folks in Chatham made the same percentage of their trips by bike as
is done in some European cities, we would have about 10,000 bikes on Chatham
streets at rush hours. Wouldn't that be something to see!
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On
Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau
(whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three
incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the
roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me know
what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments back to
the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg
and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the
other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There
will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall - with the
informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to be
changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) - focused
on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is intended for
an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5321 (20100728) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
2:26 p.m.
Josette, can you please give us the specifics of those incidents so we
can discuss the with the OPP or Police Services as to what they should
watch for or warn against?
Thanks
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence
bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had
three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not
fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me
know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments
back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as
needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall -
with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs
to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) -
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is
intended for an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
5:11 p.m.
John,
It was a simple ride to Deer Run Golf Course along Hwy 3 west of Blenheim,
26K total. Mid-afternoon, July 25. Clear, sunny day.
#1: White Cadillac gave me no room, and passed me when there was an oncoming
vehicle, so we were essentially three abreast. Just west of Blenheim, by the
McGuigan Plant Co. At this point on the road, there is space on the right of
the white outer line, so I was OK physically, but it was tight.
#2 Travelling back into town, just east of Porky¹s Corners (turn-off to
Erieau). A red Dodge van started to pass a vehicle, and I actually pulled
myself up from the tri-bars and, with my palm down, made a sweeping motion,
trying to indicate that he should stop and wait until all oncoming traffic
(ie myself) was past. He smiled and waved to me as he passed the other
vehicle and if I had reached out I could have touched the rear-view mirror
on the his door.
#3 Black pick-up truck and trailer, like a car hauler, about 100M from the
bridge going into Blenheim on Hwy 3, just before Fargo Rd. Didn¹t bother to
pull around me, even though there was absolutely no oncoming traffic. In
these instances, I am very concerned about wind drag, because this was a
heavy vehicle and me and my bike are pretty light.
There were also many instances of people doing the right thing during this
ride, but I probably won¹t go that route again, just because the traffic is
a concern. My biggest problem is that drivers don¹t realize that I can¹t
just pop onto the gravel shoulder to let them pass. Another thing it¹s not
like I am slowing them up at all many of us go from 25-35K/hr. On these
kinds of rides. Could someone tell me what the big hurry is? We¹re in
Chatham-Kent what in heaven¹s name does everyone have to be in such a rush
for? If a driver has to wait to pass us, I can¹t imagine the wait is very
long not like it would make much of a difference to their ETA.
Done my rant for the day, thanks,
Josette
On 10-08-03 2:26 PM, "John Sigurjonsson" <john(a)cycleck.ca> wrote:
Josette, can you please give us the specifics of those incidents so
we can
discuss the with the OPP or Police Services as to what they should watch for
or warn against?
Thanks
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca] On
Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence bureau
(whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had three
incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on the
roads. Here¹s the first information going out to the public. Let me know what
you think as this is a first go, and I¹ll take your comments back to the
Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the Wallaceburg
and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too large for the other
Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as needed. There will also
be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall with the informational tear
off sheets. Please advise if anything needs to be changed. We wanted to keep
it light(meaning not too many words) focused on the Share the Road and the
two different road signs. It is intended for an adult audience.
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
11:34 a.m.
Thanks for this Josette. Three great examples to support the need to
educate motorists to always give a cyclist at least a meter clearance
when passing, and if necessary wait until traffic conditions make the
meter clearance possible.
The clearance rule isn't in law yet but it is in the drivers' manual put
out by MTO.
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:11 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
John,
It was a simple ride to Deer Run Golf Course along Hwy 3 west of
Blenheim, 26K total. Mid-afternoon, July 25. Clear, sunny day.
#1: White Cadillac gave me no room, and passed me when there was an
oncoming vehicle, so we were essentially three abreast. Just west of
Blenheim, by the McGuigan Plant Co. At this point on the road, there is
space on the right of the white outer line, so I was OK physically, but
it was tight.
#2 Travelling back into town, just east of Porky's Corners (turn-off to
Erieau). A red Dodge van started to pass a vehicle, and I actually
pulled myself up from the tri-bars and, with my palm down, made a
sweeping motion, trying to indicate that he should stop and wait until
all oncoming traffic (ie myself) was past. He smiled and waved to me as
he passed the other vehicle and if I had reached out I could have
touched the rear-view mirror on the his door.
#3 Black pick-up truck and trailer, like a car hauler, about 100M from
the bridge going into Blenheim on Hwy 3, just before Fargo Rd. Didn't
bother to pull around me, even though there was absolutely no oncoming
traffic. In these instances, I am very concerned about wind drag,
because this was a heavy vehicle and me and my bike are pretty light.
There were also many instances of people doing the right thing during
this ride, but I probably won't go that route again, just because the
traffic is a concern. My biggest problem is that drivers don't realize
that I can't just pop onto the gravel shoulder to let them pass. Another
thing - it's not like I am slowing them up at all - many of us go from
25-35K/hr. On these kinds of rides. Could someone tell me what the big
hurry is? We're in Chatham-Kent - what in heaven's name does everyone
have to be in such a rush for? If a driver has to wait to pass us, I
can't imagine the wait is very long - not like it would make much of a
difference to their ETA.
Done my rant for the day, thanks,
Josette
On 10-08-03 2:26 PM, "John Sigurjonsson" <john(a)cycleck.ca> wrote:
Josette, can you please give us the specifics of those incidents so we
can discuss the with the OPP or Police Services as to what they should
watch for or warn against?
Thanks
Regards
John Sigurjonsson
Member Services
Cycle Chatham-Kent
519-352-0883
-----Original Message-----
From: ckcycle-bounces(a)lists.ncf.ca [mailto:ckcycle-bounces@lists.ncf.ca]
On Behalf Of Josette deBrouwer
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:27 PM
To: Chatham-Kent Commmunity Cycling Group
Subject: Re: [CKcycle] pull up display
They should be visible at all municipal info centres and other municipal
properties, especially arenas. Also, how about the drivers licence
bureau (whatever that is called) and car dealerships? Like Geoff, I had
three incidents on one ride along hwy 3 west of Blenheim on Sunday. Not
fun.
On 10-07-26 4:12 PM, "James Lively" <jalively(a)cogeco.ca> wrote:
As we were riding along on Sunday, I was asked about the bike signs on
the roads. Here's the first information going out to the public. Let me
know what you think as this is a first go, and I'll take your comments
back to the Active Communities Committee.
Thanks
James.
Hello everyone. This pull up display (x2) will be placed in the
Wallaceburg and Chatham Libraries for the month of August. (a bit too
large for the other Libraries), then they can be relocated elsewhere as
needed. There will also be a similar, accompanying poster on the wall -
with the informational tear off sheets. Please advise if anything needs
to be changed. We wanted to keep it light(meaning not too many words) -
focused on the Share the Road and the two different road signs. It is
intended for an adult audience.
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
_____
_______________________________________________
CKcycle mailing list
CKcycle(a)lists.ncf.ca
http://lists.ncf.ca/mailman/listinfo/ckcycle
5214
days inactive
5223
days old
21 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Cynthia Aukema -
Daniel Brousseau -
eymcdn＠telus.blackberry.net -
Geoff Clement -
Helen and Eric Robertson -
James Lively -
John Sigurjonsson -
Josette deBrouwer -
Laevens, Jennifer -
Rand MacIntosh